5 Responses

1. Pagliacci says:

   October 15, 2007 at 5:53 pm

   “Standup should be a solitary pursuit, say we. One of the problems of any ‘collaborative approach’ to writing an act is that it invariably results in a tussle over authorship. The “Stand-up” that is the SU part of HCSUCS is a misnomer– what is described is more along the lines of improv or sketch comedy.”I think you’re completely off-base with this one for two reasons:(1) You’ve definitely misread the situation at Harvard. They’re clearly not all getting together as a group and writing out routines for a single person. The article makes clear that a single stand-up comedian presents their material to other comics, receives feedback, and incorporates that feedback into their routines.(2) This idea – that comedians can help each other – is not contrary to the idea of stand-up, as you imply. Starting out in stand-up, it helps to have a sounding board – someone who can tell you, “Hey, that’s not funny” or “Hey, that would be funny if you worked on the premise a bit more.” There’s no reason older, more seasoned comics can’t help younger comics grow as artists.To conclude: the implication that stand-up must <>never<> be collaborative and that help from other comics should be discouraged takes our art a step backwards and inhibits the creative growth that comes from external perspectives.On a more personal level, are you telling me that you two (the Male and Female Half) don’t bounce ideas off of each other? That you don’t listen to each others material and offer suggestions? I find that extremely hard to believe.This wholesale rejection of collaboration in any form is very disquieting to me.

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2. Brian McKim & Traci Skene says:

   October 15, 2007 at 7:53 pm

   Thanks, Pagliacci.We reply:(1) “The collaborative workshopping of routines” is called a “vital part of HCSUCS.” Sounds like a lot of collaborating going on. If there’s not, we misunderstood.But we still think that standup is/should be a primarily solitary pursuit. The better to forge one’s own unique persona. The better to find one’s voice.The comic creates jokes, creates an act, then has a relationship between himself and the audience, doing things the way he sees fit. We are of the opinion that comics who collaborate wind up with material that sounds like the product of a committee. And that comics who go it alone more often end up with an act that is singular.(2) Some of us have had “sounding boards” on the way up– someone who can say, “Hey, that’s not funny.” (But that kind of advice usually comes swiftly and decisively from The Crowd (see above), not from a fellow open miker.)If we listened to any feedback from a comic, it was usually on tiny, technical things. And then, sparingly, if at all. (And we very quickly became annoyed at any comic who tried out material on us.) But, any reliance on such feedback diminishes (out of necessity)– and diminishes quickly (or should)– as the performer gains confidence in his ability to create a persona and guess the sensibilities of an audience.Positing that the best standup is borne of solitary effort hardly takes the art a step backward. And as for the Male and Female Halves bouncing ideas off each other– we rarely, if ever, do. And if we consult on something, it’s usually <>after<> the bit has been tried. It’s almost always on technical matters and rarely on aesthetics.We have offered seminars on standup in the past. We workshop routines at the end, but we tend to tinker with physical, mechanical matters and we avoid, for the most part, tinkering with material, delivery and content. The writing and the development of a persona is too personal a matter, as far as we’re concerned.

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3. myq says:

   October 15, 2007 at 8:37 pm

   I, too, read your statement that “standup SHOULD be a solitary pursuit” as extreme, and the same sort of sweeping generalization about standup that you normally decry.If you don’t want to workshop jokes with others or help people develop ideas, you don’t have to.But wouldn’t you say that every standup comic is and/or should be an individual, and as such, maybe the methods of one individual (or a group of them) might be different from your own?It’s been a while since I’ve read a biography of Bill Hicks, but I remember that he started out working with Dwight Slade, and they didn’t have any trouble ending up as their own comedians. Additionally, I believe I remember something about the group of 5 or so comics that Bill hung out with, wherein they would give each other ideas or jokes if they fit the persona of another better than them, and basically work together for the betterment of comedy in general, not operating under the mindset that each comic was an island unto oneself.Certainly, it may be different for experienced comedians with established personas to help each other out than it is for newcomers to the art, as it certainly wouldn’t do to have other people do everything for you, obviously, but I think it’s clear that that’s not what the club’s intentions are.Workshopping jokes by sharing them with a small group of people doesn’t seem all THAT different from telling jokes in front of a small but attentive open mike audience, only that instead of just laughter, you might get helpful feedback as well.If such a workshopping event is done reasonably, I don’t see how it would be a huge problem. I imagine that comics certainly have to write their own jokes to bring TO the workshop, so there obviously still is individuality involved.You say “positing that the best standup is borne of solitary effort hardly takes the art a step backward.”But it certainly does disregard the reality that good standup can be created and helped by communication with others as well. Especially others that likely are friends or colleagues who are ideally familiar with your persona and what you’re trying to achieve with your comedy.

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4. John says:

   October 15, 2007 at 9:23 pm

   I totally understand the idea of keeping one’s own counsel and developing one’s own voice as crucial to the development of a good standup, but the advice of friends who you respect and who respect your voice is often a good tool to have. “Tags” have been given to me by comics thatI respect and I have helped them, and both of our acts have been richer for it. I know that having a supportive “comedy scene” in Chicago made an enormous difference in honing my writing, keeping me from hack material, and helping perfect my voice. Ask anyone who were/are part of that scene (Dwayne Kennedy, Jared Logan, Kyle Kinane, Matt Braunger, Dan Kauffman, TJ Miller, Pat Brice, Mick Betancourt, Kumail, Craig Robinson, Mike Lukas, Pete Holmes, Hannibal, to name only a few) how important that feedback was. My friends from the Minneapolis scene (Chad Daniels, John Evans, Isaac Witty, Andy Richie) tell me the exact same thing about their nurturing community. It seems like these Harvard kids are just putting a scene together at their school like the ones we had, and I think that’s a good thing. You’ll get your own voice if you’re paying attention, whether your friends give you ideas here and there or not.

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5. myq says:

   October 16, 2007 at 2:20 pm

   Just wanted to second what John just said, and add that likewise the Boston comedy community has been similarly nurturing and helpful in a lot of comic development here.Redundantly,Myq

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