Bumped?! In LOS ANGELES?! Surely, you jest!
We don’t normally comment on stuff that appears in other blogs (probably because we don’t read other blogs all that often), but there’s a posting by A.V. Club’s Sean O’Neal that seems to be making waves on the WWW.
In it, O’Neal engages in what we called (in a December 8 posting) “The New Hack!” (That is, he trashed a wildly popular comic, and, by extension, his fans.)
The incident that spurred the snark-alanche was this: Dane Cook stopped into the Laugh Factory last night and worked out material for 45 minutes. And some comics were bumped. And the material was less than focused or polished and touched upon subjects that offended the delicate sensibilities of some of the comics that witnessed the whole debacle.
Dane Cook doesn’t need us defending him. He’s a big boy, he’s successful, and controversy follows him wherever he goes yet he still ends up prevailing.
But the antics of two of the comics quoted in O’Neal’s piece are particularly interesting. Daniel Kinno (who knows a thing or two about being held in contempt by fellow comics) makes a catty comment about Cook and seems awfully peeved that he was bumped… at a major showcase club… in Los Angeles. To which we reply: “Boo–Fucking-Hoo.” If you’re living in Los Angeles (or regularly performing there, or performing in NYC), getting bumped is part of the game. Any comic who does anything more than express mild disappointment is being thoroughly dishonest. Any comic who then takes a shot at the comic doing the bumping is being a sore loser. And any comic who offers the cheap shots to a publication (or broadcasts them via social media) is being a dick. Take it and deal with it. You will be able to do it yourself if/when you get to the point where a comedy club manager in one of the two major comedy markets in the world decides that his audience would rather see you than the comics he has scheduled. 99 per cent of comedians understand that they will be be bumped by 1 per cent of the comedians on this planet. It’s nothing personal; it’s business.
The other mopey comic is T.J. Miller, who took his frustrations out via Twitter. He expresses outrage that Cook would bump comedians (and is outraged on behalf of bump-ee Bobby Lee), and labels Cook as a “damaged man” who “didn’t earn” the right to steamroll the other acts on the bill that night.
Again: Deal with it. And we’re sure Bobby Lee is getting along all right without any assistance from Miller.
We met Miller when we were headlining in Pittsburgh a few years back (he was in town shooting “She’s Out Of My League”) and we found him to be pleasant and humble. We also thought that his performance in SOOML to be perhaps the highlight of the movie. So we’re puzzled by this whole outburst.
We’re doubly puzzled by the expression of disgust at Cook’s choice of material. We’re told that it was “vicious, misogynistic, cruel, and arrogant.” Hmmm… with the possible exception of mysogynistic, are we not told that these qualities are the hallmark of some of the best “edgy” and “truthful” comics working today? (And, in some respectable circles, misogyny– and material that depends on it– isn’t merely excused but celebrated.)
When did we suddenly do a 180-degree turn and start valuing comedians who are kind, gentle, understanding and humble? Miller is particularly fixated on a Cook bit about… abortion? (Last time we checked, comics aren’t allowed to cross the George Washington Bridge or get through the Cajon Pass unless they show proof of an abortion joke in their showcase sets. Indeed, The Female Half of the Staff (half)jokingly says that she’s starting to feel bad for being the only female comic on the planet who doesn’t do an abortion joke.)
Miller further takes Cook to task for trying to “work through his own shit on stage” and for believing that “it’s okay to bomb and talk about your issues.” Exactly what the hell is going on here? Have we not, for the last decade or more, been bombarded with the meme that what matters most is the bold, edgy attempt at getting to the heart of one’s “personal truth?” And that it matters not what kind of response we get? And that audiences rightly thrill to the spectacle of a daring truthteller working things out onstage, not caring one whit about whether or not it results in belly laughs?
Cook defended himself by saying, “This was only the fourth time I’ve ever performed it, as well as the fourth time I’ve ever admitted this incident in public. So it still feels like a very nervy high wire walk for me. There’s times when I lose the audience and have to get them back, freeze up, and wonder if I shouldn’t have just kept this whole incident to myself.” Oh… waitaminute… that’s not Cook, that’s a quote from Patton Oswalt defending his savaging of a heckler at a room in Los Feliz about 12 days ago. When Oswalt tries out material during a “drop-in” appearance, he’s everybody’s hero. When Dane Cook does it (and bumps Jenna Marbles, Daniel Kinno and T.J. Miller in the process), he “took a shit on everyone.” A curious double standard to say the least.
13 Responses
Reply to: Bumped?! In LOS ANGELES?! Surely, you jest!
I’m not sure why you call Patton Oswalt “Everybody’s hero” when one of the comics on the bill at his drop-in, Barbara Grey, wrote a blog post savaging his treatment of somebody trying to record his set. Details and a link at http://www.pattonoswalt.com/
Grey wrote her post “savaging” his treatment of a heckler who videotaped his set. Grey, to our knowledge, made no judgment about Oswalt’s material, set, approach or response. We are often told that Oswalt (and a few handfuls of other comedians) are heroic when they “let it hang out over the edge” or perform “without a net.”
We have long admired comedians who become wildly famous and successful, yet still return to the standup stage. They could easily just abandon the craft. They don’t have to put up with the bombs and heartache of working on new sets in front of live audiences– paid or otherwise, large or small. If these same comics begin to encounter insipid criticism like that contained in the A.V. Club gossip piece, they’d be 100 per cent justified in leaving it all behind. And if they encounter too many idiots with video cameras, it could have the same result.
Finally, a voice of reason in this mess. Well put Shecky folks.
If Jim Norton or Doug Stanhope talked about the same exact things as Dane Cook that night, would T.J Miller say anything? I’m saying no. It’s because it was Dane Cook.
It’s all so petty
Yes, it is petty. And it illustrates just how (willfully?) obtuse Mr. Miller is when it comes to (show) business.
I love TJ Miller and not much of a Dane Cook fan, but, I have to agree that TJ Miller’s tweets about Cook was gross, disingenious, and self-serving. It boggles my mind why TJ would do this. I was impressed by his Conan set and his appearance on Pete Holmes’ podcast and this outburst just seems out of character. Anyway, thanks for the fair article. Every other comedy site seems to have jumped back on the hate Dane Cook bandwagon.
Funny how TJ Miller thinks the bumping was crass. Yet he had no problem having me bumped when he wanted my headlining date at a club a few years back. I’d had the date on the books for months but that didn’t stop him from asking for it anyway…and getting it for being a “special event headliner”. He had more credits than me, so I got bumped. That’s show biz. Now, maybe it was a manager or agent who made the call….but the fact remains that I was bumped, and he got the date four weeks out that we no-names have to book half a year in advance. He should be thankful that better-known comics get the better slots; it has obviously worked out for HIM in the past.
Funny how that works out, isn’t it?
And here’s yet another side of the coin (if a coin can have more than two sides and an edge): We benefited from one of Miller’s zig-zags. When he canceled a date- with less than four weeks notice– at a comedy club we’re affiliated with (for the purposes of shooting a movie), we picked up that date.
Of course, we didn’t get Miller’s personal appearance fee, but we did pick up a last-minute gig.
Cosign. This column is dead on. It’s funny how when people try to make Tracy Morgan apologize its blasphemy. Leave the double standards to the PC police.
Hey guys, it’s me. Listen to my podcast on You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes. you’ll see I wasn’t pissed about getting bumped or his choice of material, but his being abusive to an audience that I had to build back up right after his hour and a half. I don’t care what you say on stage, or if you bump me (I get bumped ALL the time. I HAVE EVEN BEEN BUMPED BY DANE BEFORE AND NEVER MENTIONED IT). My real issue is how awful he was to the audience that didn’t pay to see him or care to be abused by him. If you disagree with that, if you think that comics should be allowed to berate and be mean and cruel to an audience, well then we differ in that respect. But also, who the fuck cares what I say about a multimillionaire with millions of fans? Why is he allowed to say whatever he wants and I’m not? Why is my opinion to be censored and his material not? I won’t go on twitter to express these concerns again, that’s for sure, but I can’t believe you guys would print this drivel without reaching out to me. I know both of you, have been a fan of the magazine for years and have recommended you to clubs in the past. Anyway, hope the site is doing well and that you guys are killing it on the road.
your in humility and being bumped,
t.j.
Hey, T.J.:
We’ll try and check out the podcast.
We’ll just say that the purpose of our post was to comment on an article (from the AV Club) that was making the rounds… and we were addressing the controversy (and the subsequent fallout all over the internet) that followed the article.
Had we written the story ourselves, we certainly would have reached out to you. But it seems that all the “reaching out” had been done.
No one censored your opinion. It got out there and it was consumed by thousands. We certainly didn’t censor your opinion– we merely commented on it. That’s what we often do, in order to provide our readers with “drivel!”
And, if it seems like we are advocating that Cook’s material not be “censored,” well, you got us there– we are pretty much artistic expression absolutists (with necessary limitations provided by context, of course).
And we’re big believers in free enterprise– so, Jamie Masada (or whoever was in charge of the club that night) had every right to present whomever they wanted to on the Laugh Factory stage. And you, in turn, had every right to refuse to go on and “build (the audience) back up” after Cook’s 90 minutes.
I suppose you could say that, yes, we “think that comics should be allowed to berate and be mean and cruel to an audience.” But we’re not 100 per cent convinced that’s what went on. We get a little antsy when someone characterizes a fellow comic’s performance in such a way. And we would point out that there are comics who ‘berate and be mean and cruel” to audiences on a regular basis. These comics are often said to be merely “edgy” and they are hailed as members of a comedy vanguard– and if a comic fails to approach comedy in a similar fashion, he/she is adjudged to be somehow less of a comedian.
To quote from one of our favorite (if not the most prolific) philosophers Sylvester Stewart (aka “Sly Stone”), “Different strokes for different folks.”
It really isn’t like you two to pick on other comics because of blogs you run across. I personally don’t think what someone says on twitter should mean too much. Most comments I see on twitter and even facebook just reactions to the moment and if we all really thought it through twitter and facebook would be pretty boring.
First: We didn’t “pick on other comics.” We rarely comment on other blogs. But we commented on an item that appeared in the A.V. Club. That’s what we do. And the A.V. Club is hardly just another blog that we “ran across.” It’s part of the Onion empire.
Second: You may not think that “what someone says on twitter should mean too much.” (Whatever that means.) But what someone says on Twitter means exactly what it means. And it’s public. Unlike Facebook, which is only meant to be seen by a self-selected group and, therefore, is less than public.
Other organizations in the media regularly comment on the tweets of the stars. Tweets are publicly visible by default; however, senders can restrict message delivery to just their followers. (Wikipedia) Neither comic in the A.V. Club piece restricted their tweets in such a manner.
When a comic publicly attacks another comic (and that attack is subsequently picked up by an influential publication), we sometimes offer our analysis of it. Again, it’s one of the things we do.
Not sure why “reactions to the moment” are somehow supposed to be immune from comment. Their tweets received plenty of comments from other folks in the hours and days following their original publication (note that word and it’s root). If they can comment on it, we can. And if they comment on it, we often feel compelled to do so.