Who steals from whom? Who cares?
With few exceptions, we have never gotten into the middle of the Who Steals What From Whom controversies that have popped up here and there over the past two years or so. It’s not our style. It’s seems to be a giant waste of everyone’s time. And we also have warned of the danger of airing such things too publicly, of broadcasting such grievances too widely and inviting certain parties (like the media!) in on the conversation. We’re on record as saying that the aggrieved parties are better off going one-on-one with the alleged offenders.
And when Joe Rogan went YouTube and accused Carlos Mencia of stealing the “Mexicans building the border wall” joke (and did so very publicly), we cringed. He might have cited a better example if he was going to go medieval on Mencia’s ass, we thought. That gag was the worst possible gag he could have gone after to prove his point. Credibility plummeted. Nobody came out a winner.
The debate still rages on. (The media will use it to prop up every fifth or sixth article on standup for the next decade or so. Job well done, all of you!)
The Bill Brownstein column that ran in the Montreal Gazette (ostensibly a review of Dane Cook‘s The Lost Pilots DVD release) begins by rehashing the whole Louis CK/Cook controversy. But this line gave us pause:
Comedy is a tough business. And, sure, the possibility exists that two comics can come up with the same concept for a gag– but in this ever-wired universe, it seems highly unlikely.
Emphasis ours.
This notion– that comics sit around all day checking out other comics on the television or on the internet or by XMRadio or DVD’s or CD’s– does not comport with reality. We are worried primarily about our very own acts. We are not really all that psyched about watching the work of others. Oh, sure, we’ll watch another act and truly enjoy him or her. We’ll catch this comic or that on Late Night or at a showcase in NYC or LA. But the world that Brownstein and others imagine– in which comics are frantically trying to absorb the works of others so as to pilfer material (or make sure that none of theirs is pilfered)– is simply a fantasy.
Hell, the Male Half will have to alert the Female Half to a new bit in his act, and vice versa. Which means that a married couple of comedians don’t even constantly and vigilantly watch each others’ acts!
Many of us (most of us?) have a creative tunnel vision. At least once we get to a certain level of busy. Early on it is helpful– perhaps even necessary– to survey the comedic landscape, to watch voraciously every act that can reasonably be consumed. If for no other reason than to gather knowledge of standup, to get a handle on just how vast the artform is. To get a handle on the possibilities or, maybe, on the limitations.
But at a certain point, out of necessity, that ceases. Or it shrinks down.
9 Responses
Reply to: Who steals from whom? Who cares?
I agree that Joe should have cited a better example than “Mexicans building the border wall” joke. Someone posted on youtube a clip of DL and Lopez both doing that joke as well. And just last week I was on the laughfactory.com webpage and right on the front page is a “best of” clip which has, at the end, Alonso Boden doing that joke! I guess he didnt hear the news.
Ricardo –I’m the guy who made the video featuring DL and Lopez doing the “wall joke.” I’m not a fan of Mencia – but some perspective was definitely needed at that moment. (The Bodden bit would be good to add to the montage) In my interview with Rogan, he told me that it wasn’t the best comparison out there. With the Cosby/Mencia joke out there now I think Rogan is a little vindicated and I give the guy a break, he was on stage at that moment confronting someone with what he had available at the time.But I think Brian and Tracy have a good point. There’s an assumption out there that stand-up comics have photographic memories for jokes. They’re definitely more up on others’ act that lay people – but I doubt any touring comedian can tell you all the bits a comic is doing right now. I think stealing definitely happens, but just assuming just because a comic seen a joke once – or even three or four times – doesn’t mean they’ll remember it.Todd Jackson
Hey Todd, great job posting that clip. I agree 100%. Steeling does happen, but not as often as people think. Some jokes, like “Mexican wall” and “Viagra 4 hour erection” are just too easy to write.
I saw Bodden do the “wall” joke and as recently as last weekend saw Dave Coulier do it. Is it now the comedic equivalent of the blues, where every comic has it in their repetoire?
What about this point?From what I remember of the video where Rogan goes after Mencia, he claims that Mencia did the joke only AFTER he saw someone do it opening for him…If that’s the chronology, then that’s completely different from parallel thinking, of two people coming up with the same (potentially obvious) joke.Of course, this doesn’t address the issue of PROVING when someone started doing a joke or whether they only did it after seeing it done by someone else, if such a thing is possible.But it definitely seems possible for someone to steal a joke that several other people came up with. (And in some ways, that seems even worse than stealing a more original thought.)
I tell at least one stolen joke every time I go onstage. I always fess up to it and never pass it on as my own, but I do steal jokes. (I am also quite careful to make sure it is a general joke that I could probably find on the internet or in an old Friar’s Club book or something like that.) There are several reasons I do it, but the biggest and easiest is simply because some jokes are very fun to tell in the same way it will always fucking rock to cover Metallica jams. It has it’s perils – I’ve been told by other comics and bookers that it is shit performance quality to do it, that they are old jokes past their time and should never be told, that they (meaning I) am too dirty because of it, that everyone knows them jokes so I should never tell them, that certain comics have a fondness for certain jokes so since they tell that particular joke I am a shithead for doing the exact same thing they do, that any comic who tells jokes like that is somehow inferior and will never “make it”….The list goes on and on but my answer remains the same. I like telling them jokes and that is all that matters. Eat a dick and to hell with what it may cost me. Until some other time…
“I like telling them jokes and that is all that matters. Eat a dick and to hell with what it may cost me.”If having fun is all that matters, why DON’T you tell jokes that belong to other comedians that you COULDN’T find in an old joke book?It’s fun to tell Mitch Hedberg jokes, or Gaffigan jokes, or Steven Wright jokes. Isn’t it?If the fact that you like telling them is all that matters and people should eat a dick if they disagree because who cares about the consequences, why draw the line at street jokes?
What do you mean, you fess up to it? You tell the joke, get the laugh, and then go, “That’s a Jerry Seinfeld bit?” Is it like a FOOTNOTE?Maybe you’re not a thieving dick; maybe you’re a VISIONARY.
We are reminded of what Gary Muledeer told us: Every once in a great while, he’ll get off stage and someone from the audience will mildly chastise him for doing other people’s jokes– “That joke you did about (fill in the blank)? I saw a comedian do that in the club in my town a couple months ago.” It’s his joke, of course. He says, with a wry smile, “I’ve been in this business for so long, people are accusing me of stealing my own jokes!”As for our Jeff above, who does “a general joke that I could probably find on the internet or in an old Friar’s Club book or something like that,” I think he’s using the word “steal” somewhat facetiously. He’s using what are known as “street jokes,” the origin of which is so old and so obscured as to be indiscernible. If you’ve been in the business longer than ten minutes (and you’re not a moron), you can tell the difference between a street joke and a joke that was penned by Mitch Hedberg or Jim Gaffigan. If you can’t, you’ve got no business telling a street joke.And I believe he prefaces such jokes with the disclaimer… and doesn’t footnote it.We know many comics who use the occasional street joke for many purposes. As comedy crimes go, it’s not even a misdemeanor. Should a comic build his entire act on jokes from a Friars Club collection or a Playboy Party Jokes anthology? Certainly not. Could he? Certainly. Is it somehow sinful for a comic to tell a joke (a traditional, “A guy walks into a bar…” joke) here or there, at the end of his set, in the middle? At a corporate? On a cruise? In a casino? No, no, no and no.It’s something that not everyone can do. It takes skill and, in some cases, it endears the performer to a certain segment of the audience.